Curse

crime.mob · Apr 06, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

The recent skill update didn't have much for paragons, but more importantly, Anet seems to be lowering its hands on the "paragon nerf 2 hell" button. Amazingly, we actually got a buff on shouts/chants, as anthem of fury's recharge time was decreased (better able to feul echoes and now is one of the few skills that can replace anthem of flame in the perpetuation of "aggressive refrain"), and anthem of envy's attack was increased (it still is underpowered, but atleast not as much as before).

I hope this means that the orgy of paragon nerfs is over and good things lie ahead for the paragon.

Though, we kind of got a nerf in another way, as now we can't buff minions or any other "non-spirit" person b/c they changed shouting to only affecting allies... which is dumb because the nerf was only there to make spirits less powerful, not everything non-spirit... they could have easily said that the skills "affect all non-spirit allies" but they were probably like, "oh they've been nerfed so much, they won't care if we nerf'em some more."

geekling · Apr 06, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by crime.mob

Though, we kind of got a nerf in another way, as now we can't buff minions or any other "non-spirit" person b/c they changed shouting to only affecting allies... which is dumb because the nerf was only there to make spirits less powerful, not everything non-spirit... they could have easily said that the skills "affect all non-spirit allies" but they were probably like, "oh they've been nerfed so much, they won't care if we nerf'em some more."

This is a nerf I really, utterly and truely hate, loathe and dispise, it is pure codswallop. Words that does not involved go engine red go are not strong enough to express the idiocity of this so called 'small adjustement'.

Yeah, because those chants affecting and buffing these guys:

Were so truely breaking the mythical 'PvP balance' that they had to take that last little bit fun away from the PvE paragon.

Humanghost · Apr 06, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I hate ANet for this nerf. I can't imagine what was they thinking. They want do Paragon completely useless? I'm angry, very angry.

Milan-V · Apr 06, 2007, 08:11 PM // 20:11

There is one minor reason to take a paragon in your party left...and ffs I am so mad about it! >=(

ArKaiN · Apr 06, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

I *think* it had more to do with the interaction between stuff like GftE+FtW and MM's.

geekling · Apr 07, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

I *think* it had more to do with the interaction between stuff like GftE+FtW and MM's.

Quote:

This small adjustment to the Paragon was made primarily to deal with Spirit/Chant issues. Since all Spirit attacks count as attack skills, these Chants were making offensive Spirits more powerful than they were intended.

Says it had nothing to do with MMs.
Minions don't trigger any of those skills that were changed, they did gain a little bit of protection from burning foes thanks to "They're on fire!" but that's the only change to minions.

PvPers complain that there's a problem with spirits being too powerful in PvP when combined with a Paragon.
Well, lesse... we could change the spirits to not have all attacks count as attack skills, so their attacks are no different from say minion attacks.
That would take care of it...
Or we could make the paragon chants affect 'non-spirit allies' only, that would do it too...
But hey! niether would make the PvE paragon suffer, so let's bring out the big nerf hammer and change them to party only.

Can't have paragons teaming up with beastmasters and run around having PvE fun with an army of bears, oh noes! Can't have Paragon chants affect NPC allies! That's outrageous, people might actually have fun playing them in quests/missions with NPC allies to babysit. Those aren't meant to be fun, those NPCs aren't supposed to help the party - just be there as a hinderance!
This must be stopped!

Spura · Apr 08, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

They claim that it was because of spirits. Anthem of Fury was changed from Ally to Party Member. Apparently adrenaline makes spirits overpowered or something. [/sarcasm]

pingu666 · Apr 09, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

yep, thats a stupid change. paragons where great in the not make npc a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing liability area, but not now

Komradkyle · Apr 09, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I made my mesmer and paragon just to play dress up and nothing else

FeroxC · Apr 09, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

All is not lost, we still got some nice attack animations like anthem of flame.
and we got 80 def armour.

We can load up on warrior skills and be pretty but less effective warriors.

*sips, from his half filled glass*

Corpselooter · Apr 10, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

R.I.P. Paragons.

I bet arenanet has this topic under "favourites" and check it whenever they need a laugh.

yakuza9 · Apr 10, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

let me get this straight..

I can't use the shouts on my pet if I'm Paragon/Ranger?

what's a good secondary for paragons now?

crime.mob · Apr 10, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

o snap i forgot now you can't buff pets either... well theres few secondaries the nightfall professions can synergize with (the paragon isn't the only class with the problem of all paragon skill bars, dervishes can barely mix with anything either)

The ranger is still a good choice if you have some awsome trap build or you how to synergize your chants with your bow attacks (you can get the energy from adrenaline chants... but i found i was doin more damage with spear :P)

The warrior is, almost obviously, the class that mixes with the paragon the best. Theres the adrenaline cross over and I think you can make better use of the tactics line than warriors can :P. Instead of using the spear you could use any of the warrior's weapons but you have to remember that now you need to run up to the target rather than shoot it, so i would recomend bringing the speed buff in Leadership.

Monk, if you want to heal (but worse than a real monk).

Mesmers and necros are workable (though barely), minion master builds have been ruled out but you could use their plethora of spells to help you achieve... whatever your build is tryin 2 achieve. The elementalist 2dary allows you to bring "conjure flame" or you could simply spam spells, required that you have enough adrenaline buffs and leadership to back up ur energy usage (though i don't recommend using the paragon this way).

Spura · Apr 11, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

You are using secondaries the wrong way. You are taking a thing from secondary(pet, monk heals, warrior weapon, traps, MM) then working your paragon primary around it. That sucks.

Make the usual paragon then figure out what abilities you need that paragon can't offer and choose secondary on that and use 1 or 2 skills from secondary.

Mesmer offers hex breaker, expel hexes. Monk offers Mending Touch, Restful Breeze. Warrior offers block stances and some additional shouts. Ele offers Conjure X and other buffs.

Other secondaries are not that useful.

King's Spectre · Apr 11, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekling

Yeah, because those chants affecting and buffing these guys:

Were so truely breaking the mythical 'PvP balance' that they had to take that last little bit fun away from the PvE paragon.

GftE and such still work on these guys, don't they? Not as good for buffing them anymore but still good for energy management.

yakuza9 · Apr 11, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

You are using secondaries the wrong way. You are taking a thing from secondary(pet, monk heals, warrior weapon, traps, MM) then working your paragon primary around it. That sucks.

Make the usual paragon then figure out what abilities you need that paragon can't offer and choose secondary on that and use 1 or 2 skills from secondary.

Mesmer offers hex breaker, expel hexes. Monk offers Mending Touch, Restful Breeze. Warrior offers block stances and some additional shouts. Ele offers Conjure X and other buffs.

Other secondaries are not that useful.

compared to other classes, the paragon has quite a few condition removal abilities and hexbreaker aria...

I'm really interested in BLIND though, we have no real defense against warriors/rangers.

Spura · Apr 11, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakuza9

compared to other classes, the paragon has quite a few condition removal abilities

Most of which suck. When assassin hits you with 3 conditions, you won't stick around to use lyric of purification or something like that. The only good self condition removal is that of Remedy Signet, but I prefer Mending Touch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakuza9

and hexbreaker aria...

Which is very poor hex removal. Paragon doesn't have spells so you have to draw from secondary, also it costs 8 adren and casts 2 sec(I have no idea why this was nerfed in this way). Also it won't work if you get hexed with Vocal Minority and versus diversion you'll want to use Hexbreaker from mesmer rather than hexbreaker aria.

[/QUOTE]
I'm really interested in BLIND though, we have no real defense against warriors/rangers.[/QUOTE] Try using steam from water magic.

holden · Apr 12, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by yakuza9

I'm really interested in BLIND though, we have no real defense against warriors/rangers.

you have the armor and shield of a warrior. rangers shouldn't do that much to you with condition removal on your bar.

grasping earth costs no attribute points for a great snare and an opportunity to distance yourself from melee characters.

the only thing paragon is missing is interrupts.

Thom Bangalter · Apr 12, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

there are these things in gvgs called archers, and at 20 minutes they all go out to the flagstand. giving 6 or 7 guys anthem of flame or stand your ground is pretty gamebreaking there.

Motivation sucks. It NEEDS to suck. Command and spear mastery are still spectacular though.

Skuld · Apr 12, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Imagine every offensive binding ritual in the game in a line, causing CRIPPLE and BURNING when they attack.

That is why.